Debate Table

[Link 3]

you can hold marriages without the religious undertones.

[Alexander 0]

Then what's wrong with letting gays marry? Without religion, there is no argument.

[Link 3]

I can't tell you. Some people are just uncomfortable with it. There are still arguments. Forgive the way I put this, but a chick and a chick don't exactly match each other physically and back in caveman days, there were no strap-ons. And guys don't fit either.

[Alexander 0]

I can't tell you. Some people are just uncomfortable with it. There are still arguments. Forgive the way I put this, but a chick and a chick don't exactly match each other physically and back in caveman days, there were no strap-ons. And guys don't fit either.

Back in caveman days there were no cars, computers or Star Wars. I don't see that many people uncomfortable with those things. Sex toys aren't a modern thing in this day and age either, there has been sex toys for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Also, there has been gays for thousands of years as well, even before there was the prominent religion Christianity.

[Link 3]

and back to the old argument that religion is manmade and can be interpreted many ways and so can the constitution. that's the neat thing about a human. it sees things its own way. those are inanimate objects and you'd be surprised how many people are against those things. and if you read the bible (written yet again by a man) that happened while the people were without law.

[Alexander 0]

Exactly why I'm an atheist.

[Link 3]

i dunno man. it hurts my head thinking about it.

[GI_Admiral 2]

You said that religion said homosexuality was immoral...but if we followed directly from the bible or whatever religion you follow....we would have slaves...be morally obligated to kill people...etc.

[Alexander 0]

And we wouldn't be able to wear polyester/cotton mixed shirts. I could also stone people who cut their hair. :)

[GI_Admiral 2]

Yeah!!! *Hides hair cut*

[Tsl 7]

Lol, well, I am a Christian, and I say gays should have the right to marry or whatever they want to be happy. Let's not blame everything on Christians

The real issue is that this country is very conservative, and very anti-homosexual (and it's not just the religious who are homophobic, either). Gay marriages give people the willies, and those who are in charge of passing laws rely on re-election. Therefore, they do the popular thing, which is not neccesarily the fair or right thing. Hence, the attempt to find a compromise with the difference in term or the attempt to ban them altogether.

[GI_Admiral 2]

Very true...you see...democracy you get power through persuasion...in a facist government that I would recommend...you get power through death...who wouldn't like that...besides its not like its genocide or xenocide or just plain mass murder....you're just following Darwins example of survival of the fittest!

[Tsl 7]

*slays GI* And you get those crazy coups all the time...just like that! :twisted:

[GI_Admiral 2]

Well...I would have soldiers to stop you of course...:p

[Tsl 7]

But you didn't

*sets up a benevolent dictatorship...which isn't really all that benevolent* :twisted:

[GI_Admiral 2]

*Comes back to life and overthrows TSL*

*Hangs her in a public execution as a sign for all to see what he does with his enemies* :twisted:

[Tsl 7]

Aww... *swings around boredly* :(

[Alexander 0]

Aww...  *swings around boredly* 

Always look on the bright side of life...

Edited April 15, 2004 by Alexander

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

Marriage is nothing but a piece of paper.

i was trying to stay out of this, but i have to jump in here. Marriage is not "just a piece of paper"; it's a commitment to whomever you marry, gay or straight. it's a promise that you will stay true to each other in sickness and health, for better or worse...yaddy yaddy yadds...till death do ye part. that is something a lot of people these days just don't get. the divorce rate is upwards of 50% in the US, and it is a scientifically proven fact that kids who come from single parent homes are more likely to commit crime or have other social problems. personally, i think divorce is a cheap way out of that commitment. granted, there are valid reasons for it like abuse, adultery or something of that nature, but simply splitting because you "don't get along anymore" is a cop-out IMO. it shows an unwillingness to work out a problem. that's why i love the idea of eternal marriage. of course, that opens a whole 'nother can of worms as far as religion goes, but if you figure you'll be stuck with someone forever, you better be darn sure it's the right one. and if you get into a disagreement, you have to work it out. *jumps off soapbox*

[Ana 15]

In the eyes of the law, marriage is just a piece of paper. But in reality, it does have all the commitments and connotations that you brought up, JM. That's what a common-law marriage is... all the commitments and emotional bonds of a 'marriage marriage', but without that darn little piece of paper. Both gays and straights have had common law marriages throughout the years. However, most (not all) states will, when executing a will, give common law straight couples the same rights as a legally married couple. Not so for gay couples, no matter how long they have cohabitated as spouses in all but name, church, and state. In the end, the gender of your partner affects how much you will be able to leave them when you pass on, and I feel that that is extremely unfair. The fact that a large percentage of the country fears gay marriage is, from what I've heard from homophobic individuals in this area, is partially due to the sentiment that allowing people of the same sex to marry would somehow make a marriage between a man and a woman less binding and sacred (not neccessarily religion-wise here, just in terms of taking vows seriously). Honestly, though, with the divorce rates nowadays, I personally don't think it can get much less "binding and sacred"...

But that's a tangent.

Although the rising divorce rate... well that's a whole 'nother can of beans. Ooh, maybe we can discuss that next week...

[Mirax 3]

RIght, but who said you need a strap-on to enjoy physical intimacy? Or that love is about what you're calling "fitting together." Just because religion deems homosexuality as not "fitting together", does not mean that there's something wrong with it. Nor is it going against nature, since there are animals that have sex for pleasure and have homosexual relations besides humans.

And I don't find that a tangent at all Ana. If that reason is going to be used to ban gay marriage. Shouldn't we also look at straight marriage through the same lens?

[Link 3]

Yes marriage is. That's where the argument is about these people wanting a friggin piece of paper. If you truly love each other, then what's the big deal about the paper? You know in your heart. That's all that should matter. Not some piece of paper saying you're stuck with the person.

Edited April 15, 2004 by Link

[Alexander 0]

They also want that piece of paper because if they are not legally married then your partner cannot be with you at your death bed, the partner cannot make any medical decisions that might help their partner.

[Link 3]

sure they can. Refer back to my POA statement. If they hold that, then by law, they can do what they want. My cousin had one for one of his friends.

[GI_Admiral 2]

Nor is it going against nature, since there are animals that have sex for pleasure and have homosexual relations besides humans.

Actually...I think it was only Dolphins and Apes ((Which we technically are...unless you're in the Bible belt...which then we aren't...)) have sex for pleasure...the rest just do it for mating purposes.