Debate Table

[Mickey 1]

How can you expect everyone to celebrate Rhamadon and such too? I'm not real in to this all or nothing attitude. I would have nothing against a Jewish or Muslim child in the class giving a presentation and bringing in cupcakes for it or something. That would be cool and educational. If the schools took out a day for every holiday out there, school would be year-round and still never accomplish anything. Plus, believe it or not, most kids in America don't celebrate Rhamadon. The do the Christmas thang.... If you can't stand being in this society with all us crazy Christmas-lovers.......go to one you can tolerate...maybe.

And not to sound really awful, because this is going to sound bad, lol, but if you really don't want your atheist children exposed to Christmas, I suggest homeschooling them...and, like....keeping them in a box or something until they're in their 30's and no longer very open to new experiences

In any case, why do we have to deprive the majority of Christmas celebrating kiddies (which include Christians, athiests, agnostics, and yes...Muslims, Hindus and Jews, many of whom celebrate only the secular aspects of it) for the sake of the few Bah Humbugs out there who want any indications of things that may have once been near or tainted by religiion to be cast off and burried.

And on that separate note, your 1st grade teacher did a no-no. 6-year-olds are too....young and malleable to stand up to an authority figure and refuse to pray.

was this directed towards me?

[TheUnknown 39]

How is not wanting your culture, your beliefs, your religion relegated to second-class level intolerant? All or none. Government should take a neutral approach to religion, with no one or two favored over others.

And on the level with CorSec: I went to school in Bartow County, Georgia. Small city, small towns, and lots of rural areas. Mostly white. It voted like 70-something percent for Bush. When I was in Kindergarden, they played "God Bless The USA" everyday. When I was in the third grade, my teacher made it clear that she felt the universe was created by the Christian god. When I was in high school, we had an artist come. While he was doing is presentation, he blabbered on about how his religious views.

[Alexander 0]

America wasn't founded as a melting pot. If it was, there wouldn't have been a consitutional amendment forbidding interracial marriage.

Edited December 7, 2004 by Alexander

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

there isn't one

[Tsl 7]

I'm not directing anything at anybody. I just think wanting to ban secular Christmas is goofy. The only thing Christmas trees and Santa Claus have to do with religion are that they happen to be done on the same day Christians celebrate the nativity and the holiday happens to still be known as Christmas which happens to have the word Christ in it.

In all reality, the type of Christmas we have these days is rather pagan. And if we want to go there then Christmas is really a rip off of a pagan holiday that was given a Christian twist to make it okay for Puritans.

Therefore, we should be complaining about the schools trying to turn us all into pagans :p

[Drake 53]

Be like Canada. Let people do what they want and don't bug them about it. That way everyone is happy. We're a cultural mosaic. w00t.

[Alexander 0]

there isn't one

Hence the past tense of my post. There was one.

[Andy 60]

Be like Canada. Let people do what they want and don't bug them about it. That way everyone is happy. We're a cultural mosaic. w00t.

In Birmingham, the second-largest city in the UK, a few years ago they made up some crazy replacement for Christmas, because of it's religious connections.

Seems like here, you can only show your religious views if you are from an ethnic minority.

[CorSec 5]

Drakes right. Generally, these issues aren't so profound in Canada. Obviously they exist on some level, but if everyone takes a more laid-back approach to it, it doesn't become a problem.

[Princess 35]

Ok, new topic. No Child Left Behind.

I think that this program is absolutely crap and is doing nothing good for our schools. First off, because they're tested so much students get sick of taking these standardized tests and just start filling in random bubbles, they don't care, they just want to get it done. Secondly, if a school doesn't pass a test, teaching time is taken away from the teachers because the students have to be tested MONTHLY. And it's just my personal opinion that if a school is doing poorly it's because they don't have the resources, they're probably a poor district and they can't afford to have money taken away from them. They're going to end up cutting programs like PE and stuff and we're gonna have even more fat kids running around

[GI_Admiral 2]

Takes the good students and teachers and moves them to "good schools" and takes the crappy students and teachers and moves them to a "bad school" in hopes that the bad school will sooner or later shape up due to lack of funding for anything but classes that teach you loopholes in tests.

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

it has more holes in it than a strainer. my school's already over the 100 goal about ten years ahead of time. if we go down i believe two years in a row, every student can apply for transfer to a different school, and we lose government money. even though we'd still be miles above every other school in the state, and most schools in the country. second, the program itself is an unfunded mandate. here the feds are telling us to do something and not providing money to do it with. and what about kids with mental and physical disabilities that prevent them from learning with everyone else? they're held to the same standards as everyone else, and some of them can't hold a pencil to take the stupid tests.

[TheUnknown 39]

The program should be tossed.

First of all, like Prin alluded to, there are the tests. I come from a state that requires high school students to pass basic proficiency tests in social studies, language arts, writing, math, and science. Then, there are the SATs or ACTs, often taken more than once, for students who plan to go to college. If they plan to go to tech school or the military, there is the ASVAD (sp?). More advanced students have the AP or IB tests to look forward to. Finally, the county I graduated in required standardized tests in math classes.

Between my junior and senior years I had: the graduation tests (5 total), practice tests for the graduation tests (5 total), the SAT (1 total), the PSAT (1 total), AP exams (6 total), my country-required trigonometry test, plus final exams. That's twenty tests in a two year period. Then, there is the preparation for them.

Testing is NOT a good thing. There is already too much and it takes away from the real purpose of education, being, um, education.

Then there are the "raising standards" BUsith. If you can't meet the current standards, how the hell are you gonna meet the higher ones. It only serves to make failure more profound. Plus, the damn Republicans aren't funding the damn thing. Instead, they're funding tax cuts for those who don't need them and a war that should not have happened.

[GI_Admiral 2]

Yeah, it would be better if they put money into it lol

[Fenring 0]

My district has been designated an underperforming district by the federal government. BEcause of this, we have to adopt federal curriculum. ONe example of the flaws in this is that Students who read below grade level as a 9th or 10th gradr are required to take 2 english periods. In extreme circumstances, they take 3. Also, students below grade goals in math are required to take 2 math courses. My school has 7 periods. Freshman are required to take PE, History, English and Math. That leaves no time for electives, sports, or science(2 years required).

My main beef with this is that do they really expect someone to sit through 2 or 3 english classes a day attentively? o ya, the classes would run consecutively. For a kid that already hates reading, do u think that 3 hours of english is gonna make him want to learn? i lean towards the idea that forced over-immersion in english will simply make the students hate it more. Same thing with math. Besides, it only takes about half of the period to teach a section of math. the other half period is used for working on homework and getting individual help from teachers. I dont think it will take 90 minutes of one on one instruction for a student to understand one concept.

Then there is testing. We are required to take something like 5 national tests and 3 statewide standardized tests as a sophomore. These things are boring as hell. Gastro intestinal is right... We spend about a week worth of periods in each class every year learning how to do better on tests. In my history class this year, the first 3 weeks of school was on learning test maker tendencies(like most common answer is C, etc.) why learn how to do good on tests when we should just be learning the subject. on a lighter note, CA does NOT have the country's worst school system... just the 2nd worst.

[Mickey 1]

Who is this fenring? and why does he haunt my dreams of bliss, tainting all that I know to be beauty and lashing it with the torment of the dying souls of vengeance ... you bringeth my downfall ... an for that I thank you and your kinfolk .... I destroyed you tainted ways and unleashed the wrath of moniker upon the blighted peoples of yore

damn I'm so creative hen I can barely drunk type I shouldn't drive because I'll crash so I'll play battlefronts and decimate the bases cause all them belong to us wooohooo I didn't debate and defeated the purpose of this thread. Perhaps if I can gather the will I wiilll read the statments and mastrudebate them as I've done for centuries.

[Mickey 1]

I smy sig really not working cause I'm gonna be pissed at newschoolers.com if this travesty is o.

I think schools should be evaluated, but funds shouldn't be drawn away for underperformance ... they need to find a new means of pressuring these schools without removing valuable assets. Tests should be given ... but remember that kids in rural schools have little to do outside of schoolwork, so they may study or work on schoolwork more. Although in these rural schools kids are usually in the badn on the football team and on the basketball team which takes away from study time ... goddamn typing without punctuation is soooooo freakin liberating .... the chains have been broken. Oh yeah schools should be required to offer the same variety as ther schools. I have friends that entered college with 32 credits under their belts ... what A jip to us who could only take Ap calc. And nooone in the history of our school passed the Ap placement exam that let them skip MATH 181 or first semester CALc. What in the blazes I feel so good but so dismayed at all the problems in this world that I will never be able to r4medy .... But at least In a gadd da vida is a start ... now I got the MAiden cranked. Rock n' roll ewokers!!

[Fenring 0]

o ya...interesting thought: Average teacher to student ratio nationwide : 1:16

At my school: 1:28

This shows lack of funds. when combined with test scores, this proves THeUnknowns' point about lack of funding killing education

Edited January 29, 2005 by Fenring

[TheUnknown 39]

But you see, Beeurd, Fen already stated that his school system is underperforming, meaning that a good portion of the student body is having trouble. High student to teacher ratios mean teachers don't have the time to address the problems of each individual student. So, the problems just continue.

[CorSec 5]

I don't think it would be the ratio of students to teachers because here class sizes are usually around 30. At least at my high school they were, and it was a good school for exam results and all that.

My elementary and high schools both had class sizes of 30. Both were also near the top of provincial standardized testing.

[Fenring 0]

showoff... thanks for making me and the rest of the people in my school feel stupid...

im going to go cry now*tear*

[TheUnknown 39]

*Pointlaughs at Fen.*

[GI_Admiral 2]

My class size is around 20-30ish...depending on the course

[GI_Admiral 2]

Bump for chicken

[Bad furday 57]

When I saw Fen's post, I first thought it was myself... :p