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Princess

Elections 04

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Princess

Ok, here's the deal. I'm opening this thread to talk about the US Presidential Election this year. It is for discussion of the candidates and their policies only. Any derogatory remarks about any candidate or a fellow poster's view on a candidate will result in the thread being locked and possible temp banning of the offending poster. This is a flame free zone for civil (or as civil as discussing politics can get) discussion about the upcoming election

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TheUnknown

Does this also include predictions?

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Princess

Anything pertinent to the election

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TheUnknown

Alrighty, then. My predictions (Electoral Votes in Parenthesis):

SOLID BUSH

Alabama (9), Alaska (3), Colorado (9), Georgia (15), Idaho (4), Indiana (11), Kansas (6), Kentucky (8), Mississippi (6), Missouri (11), Montana (3), Nebraska (5), North Carolina (15), North Dakota (3), Oklahoma (7), South Carolina (8), South Dakota (3), Tennessee (11), Texas (34), Utah (5), Virginia (13), Wyoming (3)

TOTAL RED: 192

SOLID DEMOCRATIC (Assuming Kerry)

California (55), Connecticut (7), Delaware (3), District of Columbia (3), Hawaii (4), Illinois (21), Maine (4), Maryland (10), Massachusettes (12), Michigan (17), New York (31), New Jersey (15), Rhode Island (4), Vermont (3), Washington (11)

TOTAL BLUE: 200

SWING STATES (States that voted Republican in 2000 in red, States that voted Democratic in blue)

Arizona (10), Arkansas (6), Florida (27), Iowa (7), Louisiana (9), Minnesota (10), Nevada (5), New Hampshire (4), New Mexico (5), Ohio (20), Oregon (7), Pennsylvania (21), West Virginia (5), Wisconsin (10)

270 Electoral Votes are needed.

Nader will not be as big a factor because he won't have the Green Party's resources at his disposal, and many Greens have realized there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats and will vote Democratic. That means states that barely went for Gore will be further out of Bush's reach. States barely went for Bush will be closer now. And Florida and New Hampshire, which Nader + Gore > Bush + Buchana are now very, very, very competitive.

Bush is losing support among Hispanics and Hispanic Catholics, who happen to be concentrated in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Florida, and a few other states. He has completely lost the Muslim vote, which is concentrated in Michigan, Pennsyvlania, and Ohio.

He has angered many in Nevada with the Yucca Mountain Complex.

In New Hampshire, Democrats got 8200 votes in the REPUBLICAN primary, 1,000 more than Bush's margin of victory there in 2000. And like I said, Nader cost Gore New Hampshire in 2000.

Bush will be (re)defeated.

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Princess

Plus he's got senior citizens and homosexuals upset at him. It isn't looking good for Bush

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TheUnknown

Plus he's got senior citizens...upset at him.

Especially damning in Florida.

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Princess

Yup. That was the state that won it for him last time. But the new social security thing is not going to help him out at all

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Ender

NOTE: I do not intend to flame anyone with this post. It is merely the truth. Last time I checked, I do not believe there was a problem with that.

This is a statement from the former Green Beret officer Don Bendell, who served in Vietnam.

The old hurts are surfacing and the feelings of betrayal by fellow citizens, and their leader stirring them up, are breaking my heart again. I am being cut in the same scar. How did we who served in Vietnam suddenly become cold-blooded killers, torturers, and rapists, of the ilk of the Nazi SS or the Taliban? Most of us were American soldiers who grew up idolizing John Wayne, Roy Rogers, and all the other heroes. That was why I volunteered. But for political expediency, John Kerry has rewritten history, again. After spending only four months in Vietnam, John Kerry testified before Congress in 1971 with these exact words about incidents he supposedly witnessed or heard about from other soldiers: "They personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."

I was a Green Beret officer who volunteered for duty in Vietnam and fought in the thick of it in 1968 and 1969 on a Special Forces A-team on the Ho Chi Minh Trail, just for startes. We were the elite. We saw the most action. Everybody in the world knows that. But we did not just kill the enemy, we built a church, a school, treated illnesses, passed out soap, food, and clothing, and had fun and loving interaction with the indigenous people of Vietnam, just like our boys did in Normandy, Baghdad, Saigon, and everywhere American soldiers ever served. We gave away our candy bars and rations to kids. Our hearts to oppressed people all over the globe.

My children and granchildren could your words, and think those horrendous things about me, Mr. Kerry. You are a bold-faced, unprincipled liar, and a disgrace, and you have dishonored me and all my fellow Vietnam veterans. Sure, there were a couple of bad apples, but I saw none, and I saw it all, and if I did, as an Army officer, it was my obligation to stop it, or at the very least report it. Why is there not a single record anywhere of you ever reporting any incidents like this or having the perpetrators arrested? The answer is simple. You are a liar. Your medals and mine are not a free pass for lifetime, Senator Kerry, to bypass charachter, integrity, and morality. I earn my Green Beret over and over daily in all aspects of my life.

Eight National Guard Green Berets, and other National Guard soldiers, have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you totally dishonored their widows and families by lumping National Guard service in with being a draft-dodger, conscientous objecter, and deserter, just so you can try to sabotage the patriotism of our President who proudly served as an Air National Guard jet pilot. I have a son earning his green beret at Fort Bragg right now, and his wife serves honorably in the Air National Guard, just like President Bush did, and I am as proud of her as I am my son. I volunteered for Vietnam and have no problem whatsoever with President Bush being our Commander-In-Chief. In fact, I am proud of him as our leader.

John Kerry, you personally derailed the Vietnam Human Rights Bill, HR2883, in 2001, after is had passed by the House by a 411 to 1 vote, and thousands of pro-American Montagnard tribespeople died since then who could have been saved by you. Earlier, as Chair of the Senate Select Committee on MIA/POW Affairs, you personally quashed the efforts of any and all veterans to report sightings of living POW's, when you held those reins in Congress. You have fought tooth and nail to push for the US to normalize relations with Vietnam for years. Why, Mr. Kerry? Simple. Your first cousin C. Stewart Forbes, CEO, of Colliers International, recently signed a contract with Hanoi worth BILLIONS of dollars for Collier's International to become the exclusive real estate representative for the country of Vietnam.

"Hanoi John," now that it works for you, you beat your chest about you Vietnam service, but to me, you are a phony, opportunistic, hypocrite. You are one of those politicians that is like a fertilizer machine: all that comes out of you is horse manure, and you are spreading it everywhere.

Medals do not make a man. Morals do.

Don Bendell

Canon City, Colorado

Don Bendell served as an offiver in four Special Forces Groups, is a best-selling author with over 1,500,000 books in print, a 1995 inductee into the International Karate Hall of Fame, and owns karate schools in southern Colorado.

Very interesting. Very, very interesting...

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Chickenman

The problem is that all presidents don't look to the future of our country. They only look to the next four years. Bush doesn't see that what he's doing to the economy and in the middle east is only beneficial now. In the middle east, more people are going to hate america. The national debt is increasing, leaving kids to pay the bill. Bush has screwed up a lot for us IMO, and that's why I'm with Kerry. If I could vote...but I still support him...uhh...yeah.

Edited by Chickenman, Prophet of Doom and Other Assorted Bad Things

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Andy

The problem is that all presidents don't look to the future of our country. They only look to the next four years. Bush doesn't see that what he's doing to the economy and in the middle east is only beneficial now.

Exactly. Nobody plans for the the next government, because it might not be them.

We have the same problem here.

The general attitude of politicians today seems to be "Why plan for the future when we can plan for ourselves?"

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Radioactive Isotope

The problem is that all presidents don't look to the future of our country. They only look to the next four years. The national debt is increasing, leaving kids to pay the bill. Bush has screwed up a lot for us IMO, and that's why I'm with Kerry.

no one ever looks far enough into the fututre, especially when polititians bend to the will of the masses. granted, that's what they're supposed to do, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. like legalizing weed. it came up because so many teens are hooked on it. but legalizing it won't change the harm it can do to a person. being raised the way i was, i'm glad that Bush is trying to introduce some values back into this country. Kerry is far too liberal for my taste, but that's what's probably going to win him the presidency. i think it's sad to see good people like Bush who are trying to do the right thing the best they know how to come under fire like that. the people elected Bush in 2000, and they should support his decisions. they may not agree, but he is the leader of this country and he shouldn't have to worry about America turning agaist him. and those who didn't vote have no right to say anything at all. don't like Bush? then get up off your duff and vote for the other guy.

as for the National Debt, we have Hamilton to thank for that. another brilliant example of not enough forsight. originally, it was inteded to unify the nation (somehow), and eventually get paid off. now, it's impossible to pay it off since it keeps rising every day. it's up in the trillions of dollars now, IIRC, and that is just too much to expect the American people to pay.

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Chickenman

We'd have national debt, with or without the national bank. Bush just made it worse.

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Radioactive Isotope

true. i never said i liked everything Bush has done. in fact, i disagree with a lot of it. but i don't have all the information he does and there are many factors i don't know. he's the boss, and i have to respect his decisions.

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Alexander

The first time I get to vote in a presidential election and there are no good candidates. :(

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Andy

Ah don't worry, it's the same with every election...

*sits around wondering who the hell isn't the worst person to vote for in the UK elections*

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TheUnknown

like legalizing weed...legalizing it won't change the harm it can do to a person.

True, but it's still none of the government's business how you hurt yourself, otherwise, we'd through smokers, alcoholics, overeaters, bulimics, and anorexics in jail, too.

the people elected Bush in 2000

Bush got 500,000 fewer votes than Gore in 2000. And more people voted for liberal candidates (Democratic, Green, Natural-Law, etc) than conservative candidates (Republican, Constitution, Reform). The American people did not vote for Bush in 2000.

i think it's sad to see good people like Bush who are trying to do the right thing the best they know how to come under fire like that. , and they should support his decisions. they may not agree, but he is the leader of this country and he shouldn't have to worry about America turning agaist him.

So, you're saying that Bush should be completely unquestioned? You're saying that we should have a dictatorship? I for one feel that people who with literally a few words could start World War III and destroy the entire human race should be subject to criticism from the media, the opposition party, the rest of the world, and especially the American people, not matter what the circumstances are.

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Radioactive Isotope

i'm not saying that he should be followed unquestioningly, but that we as a population shouldn't resort to underhanded political mudslinging. and if there's something we're not happy about, of course we should let our government know about it, but in a civil manner. that's what petitions are for. of course, i'm pretty far right wing, so there's a lot in government i'm not happy about.

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GI_Admiral

My turn:

Predictions:

Bush:

Texas (34)

Alabama (9)

Georgia (15)

Louisiana (9)

Mississippi (6)

Missouri (11)

South Carolina (8)

North Carolina (15)

Tennessee (11)

Arkansas (6)

Oklahoma (7)

Virginia (13)

West Virginia (5)

Kentucky (8)

Utah (5)

Indiana (11)

--------------

173

Kerry:

California (55)

Maine (4)

Massachusetts (12)

New Hampshire (4)

Vermont (3)

New York (31)

Conneticut (7)

Rhode Island (4)

New Jersey (15)

Maryland (10)

Washington (11)

Hawaii (4)

Delaware (3)

District of Columbia (3)

Florida (27)

Iowa (7)

Michigan (17)

Illinois (21)

Arizona (10)

Nevada (5)

----------

253

Swing States:

Alaska (3) - Bush

Colorado (9) - Bush

Idaho (4) - Bush

Kansas (6) - Bush

Minnesota (10) - Kerry

Montana (3) - Bush

Nebraska (5) - Bush

North Dakota (3) - Bush

Ohio (20) - Kerry

Oregon (7) - Kerry

Pennsylvania (21) - Kerry

South Dakota (3) - Bush

Wisconsin (10) - Kerry

Wyoming (3) - Bush

Total:

Bush: 212

Kerry: 321

For my predictions the biggest problem was the Dust Bowl states and all...Such as Idaho, Nebraska and such. Midwest and the Rust Belt leans towards Kerry I think because AFL CIO, and in Michigan the Muslim community. The Solid South still stays solid behind Republicans. North East coast states also go with Democrat. West still very liberal. I said Arizona went Democrat because of Veterans. While some veterans don't like Kerry, I think many will support him beacuse of Clark. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be wrong on some of these...

Janson and the letter:

First off, I know you didn't want to insult or flame anyone, but you basically did with a really bad cover. You quoted the letter and then basically said "hmm..." you should have atleast analyzed it or added your own opinion, cause someone could just quote one of the democratic candidates criticism of Bush and say "hmmm" and soon we'll have a flaming contest.

Second, while I'm sure the green beret did the best he could and did give his heart out, there were many who didn't voluntarily go, and there weren't others who were "as honorable" as the writer. Kerry's Claim may be correct, and Kerry may also have fought valiently.

National Debt:

IMHO I think one reason Bush jumped to war so fast was to get the economy going and to start to pay off the national debt. But our recovery is jobless...our national debt got larger, you can't just blame Bush, but as JM said, he is our leader....and when something goes wrong the leader gets blamed, it happens with every country.

JM:

The reason for mudslinging is that our government was made to be slow. We run our bills through each house so many times that it forces compromises over and over and over again getting little done. People who are frustrated lash out. It's how our system works.

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Princess

I'm sickend by Bush's campaign ads. Using images from 9/11 is totally uncalled for. Showing images of American flags, yeah, we're American and we know it. You didn't do anything special to make us pull together after 9/11, we came together in the face of a tragedy. Don't tell us that you know what you want to do with America, tell us what you ARE going to do. And it's only March, stop the mudslinging at Kerry already. I'm glad that he wants to rip apart the Patriot act

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Radioactive Isotope

yeah, the Partiot Act is rather stupid. it needs to get shoved through a woodchipper.

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Andy

Oh not gas prices. It's soooooo expensive over there. :roll:

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chozen

The problem is that all presidents don't look to the future of our country. They only look to the next four years. Bush doesn't see that what he's doing to the economy and in the middle east is only beneficial now.

Exactly. Nobody plans for the the next government, because it might not be them.

We have the same problem here.

The general attitude of politicians today seems to be "Why plan for the future when we can plan for ourselves?"

Yeah, so when you all vote for me. I won't bother with eletions.. I'll be the leader forever.

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Princess

Oh not gas prices. It's soooooo expensive over there. :roll:

For Americans it is. It used to be $.89/gallon before I started driving. I could fill a car for $10, now it's more than double that with companies making record profits and prices jumping up $.20 overnight

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Andy

My heart bleeds for you.

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