Monthly Debate #2

[Mara 29]

Because I was posting without thinking, as I am wont to do.

I'd delete my post, but that would be silly now.

And I didn't say I hated him either.

I just said that not everything he did was bad.... there are a couple issues that I think he helped, but those would be topics for other threads, methinks.

[Princess 35]

Well, since I asked what good he's done, what good do you think that he's done? And that is in the context of the thread.

[Mara 29]

Well, without having to branch into a big new debate and without getting my head chewed off...

I think it was good that he has stopped embryonic stem cell research and abortions from getting even further than they are now.

I wish they were completely gone, but at least they're, somewhat, in check.

[Andy 60]

Split the stem cell bit off. ;)

[Chickenman 9]

Whoa, he's done one good thing. And even that's debatable.

And compiled against the list of heinous things he HAS done:

Changed the world's opinion of us from being respected to being hated, or a the very least, very disliked.

Destroyed our economy in his scheme to get rid of social programs, because that's what the tax cuts are for. The Republican Party, who hate social programs, want to bankrupt us so that we have to get rid of them.

The unnecessary Iraq War that has claimed 3,907 coaltion lives, as well as a minimum of 67,265 civillian lives.

Not focusing on the real terrorists, letting Osama slip through our fingers.

Unemployment shooting through the roof, while his oil buddies get $400,000,000,000 retirement packages.

Killing healthcare, and thus, killing people.

Jailing reporters without giving reason. Freedom of the press anyone?

The Patriot Act, which serverly cuts into our First Amendment rights.

Domestic Wiretapping. Which brings up an interesting point. If he went to the judicial system, and said "Hey, I want to spy on these guys because I think they're terrorirsts," the judicial system would NOT turn that down. So why is he afraid to go to the judicial system? Maybe because he's not spying on terrorists. Perhaps political oponents? Disgusting.

The list goes on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on.

[Drake 53]

Oh snap!

[Brumak 2]

One thing that I'm really growing to despise is the fact that now that Bush is in office, a lot of people (that I've talked to, anyways) seem a lot more reluctant to heatedly discuss the happenings involving our government. It appears that people are just lying back and accepting the fact that sith is changing, and not for the better..in my eyes.

If the government doesn't get questioned...bah I won't continue this I'll get off topic lol

[Drake 53]

I'll continue your point, as I took it to mean.

Americans are now living in a state of fear under Bush's tyranny. He and his administration have tightened their grip on the media (because their companies own the media companies) and flooded the news with baseless terror alerts and stories about how terrorist attacks are imminant and crap. People need to realize that this is EXACTLY WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT. Why do you think they have "terror" in their name? They make a couple attacks and then sit back in hiding and let the government and media do the rest of their work for them.

And God forbid if anyone were to question the Bush administration on their actions. Hope you get a cell in the shade at Guantanamo...

[Brumak 2]

One thing I love...

ter?ror?ist /ˈtɛrərɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ter-er-ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

?noun 1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.

2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

ter?ror?ism /ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ter-uh-riz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

?noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Awfully similar to the methods of the good ol' U.S. of A....

[Drake 53]

Hahaha! Bush is after all of the big terrorists in the world but he's missing the biggest one of them all.....himself. :lol:

[Brumak 2]

:D

There's something else I'd like to bring up...

Bush slams Dems

Is it something I'm making up....or at the beginning of Bush's term didn't he try to cut the military? Downsize it even?

Edited July 20, 2007 by Brumak

[TheUnknown 39]

Check out the video: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/20/82929/1716

Please, would he run for President?

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

not necessarily about our dearly beloved Pres, but something i found interesting and am pretty inclined to agree with:

>Jay Leno wrote this; it's the Jay Leno we don't often see....

"The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some poll data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true given the source, right?

The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the performance of the president. In essence 2/3s of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change.

So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, ''What we are so unhappy about?''

Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter?

Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job?

Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?

Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as we move through each state?

Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter?

I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough. Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.

Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans who own a home. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames thus saving you, your family and your belongings.

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes, an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack or loss.

This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where 90 percent of teenagers own cell phones and computers.

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world? Maybe that is what has 67 percent of you folks unhappy.

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S., yet has a great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most blessed people in the world who do nothing but complain about what we don't have , and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the good Lord

we live here.

I know, I know. What about the president who took us into war and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly 31 percent approval rating?

Is this the same president who guided the nation in the dark days after 9/11?

The president that cut taxes to bring an economy out of recession?

Could this be the same guy who has been called every name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful brats safe from terrorist attacks?

The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out there defending you and me?

Did you hear how bad the President is on the news or talk show?

Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things and be glad?

Think about it......are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the "Media" told you he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful behind every day.

Make no mistake about it. The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many cases may have died for your freedom. There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have to go. They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a ''general''

discharge, an ''other than honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a few days in the brig.

So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69 percent of Americans? Say what you want but I blame it on the media. If it bleeds it leads and they specialize in bad news. Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? The media knows this and media outlets are for-profit corporations. They offer what sells , and when criticized, try to defend their actions by "justifying" them in one way or another. Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like O.J. Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done it this way......Insane!

Stop buying the negativism you are fed everyday by the media. Shut off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage. Then start being grateful for all we have as a country. There is exponentially more good than bad.

We are among the most blessed people on Earth and should thank God several times a day, or at least be thankful and appreciative."

"With hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control, mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another, and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks, "Are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance?"

Jay Leno

[TheUnknown 39]

Oh, please. More ignore America's problems, blame the media, give Bush credit he doesn't deserve bullsith.

Also, this letter is apparently an urban legend:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/hitnail.asp

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/dubiousqu.../a/jay_leno.htm

Visit My Website

Edited August 1, 2007 by TheUnknown

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

i'm not saying America doesn't have problems, cuz it does. and i'm not saying Bush is the greatest president ever. there are plenty of things i'm not thrilled about with this administration. however, what i'm agreeing with in this little article--urban legend or not--is that Americans can be a bunch of whiny ingrates. sometimes we forget how good we really have it. a lot of places in the world don't have the things we take for granted. and our places in life must be pretty secure if we can take the time to criticize what our leaders are doing in another country. and the media is partly to blame, but really only because they know the public doesn't care about the good side of the story. they know all we want to hear about is the death tolls so that we can have one more thing in this admistration to complain about. we don't care about schools that get built or neighborhoods that are just a little safer. we don't care that many of the troops are heroes and idols to Iraqi kids. to us they just become another statistic in a war we don't agree with. which gets more screen time, the soldiers that raped the 14-year-old Iraqi girl, or the ones who discovered and disarmed a roadside bomb near a playground so that other kids wouldn't get hurt? so, in a way, you're right. it's not the media's fault for giving the public what it wants.

[TheUnknown 39]

Imagine if instead of fighting for women's suffrage, they just all said, "Hey, at least we're not being raped by kossacks. Focus on the positive."

Imagine if instead of extending the vote to more than just rich, white guys, everyone just said, "Hey, at least their not drafting us to work on endless back-breaking building projects like the ancient Egyptian Pharoahs or the ancient Chinese Emporers. Focus on the positive"

Imagine if the Colonies had said, "Well, at least our lands aren't pillaged and our people forced into servitude like with other colonies."

Yes, JM, we have it better than a lot, but not as good as it should be. To call those who dare to speak up when America fails to live up to the promise told to its own and to others "whiners" is utter bullsith spoken by those looking for some sort of political and psychological defense against caring. Shouldn't we hold our country to a higher standard if we indeed think it is the greatest place on the planet? If we're going to parade ourselves around as the best place on Earth, shouldn't we be focusing on solving the problems we have and preventing future problems?

[Mara 29]

Ahh... I knew there was a reason I watched Jay every night.

[TheUnknown 39]

You didn't read my links. It's a fake. Why would Jay Leno spend so much time telling Bush jokes and then defend him?

[Princess 35]

Uh besides, we'd still have all that stuff even if Bush wasn't President

[Drake 53]

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world? Maybe that is what has 67 percent of you folks unhappy.

That just made me laugh. Seriously...that's a load of something brown, steamy and stinky after a night of bad Chinese food. Do I, as a Canadian, envy America's so-called "freedoms"? Hell no. I laugh at them. Ever heard of the cultural melting pot? America forces religions and societies to conform to the "American Way". And political freedoms? What's the Patriot Act, again? Ha ha ha. There's my laughter.

[Mara 29]

You didn't read my links. It's a fake. Why would Jay Leno spend so much time telling Bush jokes and then defend him?

Doesn't mean I still can't like him.

He's a comic.. he's paid to tell all kinds of jokes.