Kids These Days...

[Mickey 1]

obviously saying they should be shot is a gross exaggeration used as an attempt at humour on my part. I'm talking people who commit severe crimes (with all being relative its basically a judgment call), can never change their ways. What's the success rate for rehabiliation in this country? I think for drugs its probably less than 1%, obviously I'm just guessing but it is pretty much non-effective. Being an alcoholic is alot easier to turn from because, here's my philosophizing, alcohol is a more socially acceptable and welcome substance in our societies. Drugs are not socially accept, in most circles, and thus lead to the person falling into a cycle of sociopathic behaviour. I guess I'll compare it to "falling to the Dark Side," commiting an act with heavy personal and social complications will push one over an edge in which they cannot be brought back (although Anakin was redeemed from the Dark Side which ruins my analogy). Once someone commits an act of such relative atrocity, they lose all notion of right and wrong and can never gain that back. It destroys their abilities to function normally. And when these problems are coupled with the fact that alot of thesse people were raised without any sort of stable "loved ones" structure or much of a will to change, change becomes nearly impossible. After all, if you had no reason to change, whay would you? Remember that the key term is relative. The crime must be relatively socially unnnacceptable in all respects, such factors for guaging this include age, location, society, religion, basically all factors that would govern and/or restrict a persons behaviour.

Just my random beligerent philosophizing for the day.

[Uncle Du 22]

After all, if you had no reason to change, whay would you?

I think that says it all right there. Most people that are like this see themselves as having no reason to be any better than they are. They just don't have a reason to do good. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that if you wanna do something good with your life, it takes effort. That's the thing, people are getting more and more lazy it seems. Why do something that requires some sort of effort, when you can turn to an easier life of crime? Why work for something when you can go out and steal it? It's a tribute to the sad state of our society.

[Princess 35]

"They say, I'm breathin', so I must be all right"

[Uncle Du 22]

Yea, that goes along with, "Any day six feet above ground is a good one."

[Tsl 7]

Being an alcoholic is alot easier to turn from because, here's my philosophizing, alcohol is a more socially acceptable and welcome substance in our societies.

Not true, unfortunately. Alcohol is very addictive, and because it's socially acceptable, more people fall into alcoholism.

[Andy 60]

"Any day six feet above ground is a good one."

people say that..? :roll:

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

some days, i'm inclined to disagree. :|

[Chickenman 9]

I guess I'll compare it to "falling to the Dark Side," commiting an act with heavy personal and social complications will push one over an edge in which they cannot be brought back (although Anakin was redeemed from the Dark Side which ruins my analogy)

You're comparing a drug addiction to falling to the dark side?

Two completley diffrent things that.

The Dark Side is (if it existed) a state of mind, where you have falled so far from goodness, that your mind is filled with hate and a lust for power.

A drug addiction is a need for harmful substances.

[GI_Admiral 2]

One could argue that the Going to the Dark Side is your addiction for Power. You even said it yourself...their lust for power.

[Mickey 1]

Being an alcoholic is alot easier to turn from because, here's my philosophizing, alcohol is a more socially acceptable and welcome substance in our societies.

Not true, unfortunately. Alcohol is very addictive, and because it's socially acceptable, more people fall into alcoholism.

Ah, but because alcohol is more socially accepted and acknowledge ... so is alcoholism. So its easier for people to get help from others. If someone has a drug addiction, most people will pretend like they don't and will go into denial that someone they know is involved in such a taboo substance. But alcoholics are more commonly recognized so family and friends won't (at least in theory) hesitate to help them. The argument I posed was that drugs are the "dark side" of society, and people who get involved in this dark socially unacceptable world are harder to reach and turn back to normalcy. If that makes doesn't make sense let me know and I'll try to think it out in a understandable manner .

As for "The Dark Side is (if it existed) a state of mind, where you have falled so far from goodness, that your mind is filled with hate and a lust for power."

Power and hate are drugs in which people become addicted to. Drug addiction falls into a realm of the dark side of society, that I often refer to, which in and of itself is a mindset or state of mind.

People who have no social conscience need to be reconditioned into a functional social being, rather than just kicking their heroin habit or swearing off abuse. So many of these problem and repeat criminals just don't know any better. To them rape is acceptable, even though they may know it will land them in jail, they can't shake these notions from their minds. And as with actual cancer, this metaphorical cancer of the psyche is uncureable in some people.

[Tsl 7]

It's nice in theory, but it still doesn't work that way. Alcoholism is till often viewed as a non-problem. It's even considered funny. Just watch tv. There's nothing wrong with it, so why get help? Besides I don't have a problem with alcohol. I just have a few drinks with my friends... Sometimes I'm late for work and occaisionally I blow a whole paycheck at the bar, but I can quit anytime!

[Uncle Du 22]

people say that..?

Sure do, all the time on this ship.

You see, the problem is, all the groups and sith that you go to for alcohol, say that there is no such thing as "a safe way to drink". Of course, i tend to disagree, because there are steps you can take when you do drink to make sure you don't end up in a messed up situation, i.e. drinking and driving.

Take it from me, I got a DUI a little over two years ago, and I had to go through all kinds of groups, and counseling sessions, courtesy of the state of California, and the US Navy. Every single one I went to classified me as an alcoholic. Actually, every person that I met going through those programs was classified by said programs as "alcoholics".

The thing about alcoholism is, no one can force you to check in somewhere to get help for being an alcoholic. It is the only "disease" that can be treated with your express consent. No one can force you to seek treatment. They can try, but in the end, you hold your fate in your own hands.

In the end, I totally disagree with the way alcoholism is treated by everyone. Tsl is right, alcoholism is more often than not, glamorized by Hollywood. It's no wonder that so many people, even younger than me, are falling victim to it.

As for drug addictions being harder to kick because there's a lack of support, I have to totally disagree. Go to any church, or even go online, and you will find a lot of people in your area trying to kick the same habit. Believe me, after my DUI, I was in a rough spot in my life, and I did a lot of research into this kinda thing.

Back on the alcohol thing: The problem with these groups is, a lot of times, people aren't really alcoholics, but they want to try and, I dunno, find themselves, to see if they really are alcoholics. One of the things I ran into in going to these groups was I found that I would be telling myself that I was an alcoholic, even though I know I am not. But then, if you stand up and tell everyone that your not an alcoholic, what happens? "Oh, he's in denial, it's the first step, blah, blah, blah." It's really a vicious cycle.

Hmm, I think I've gone on long enough. If you can't tell, it's something that I am somewhat passionate about. I just don't want people going down the same road as me, that's all.

Edited January 10, 2005 by Du

[Mickey 1]

And you have explained one of the most important parts with any problem people may have ... being able to recognize your own problems and wanting to change yourself.

When I spoke of people helping their friends and family ... I meant that that is only possible when the person themself is receptive to it. Alcoholism is often "glamourized" by hollywood, but nowadays people are becoming more aware that it is a problem. I do see lots of stuff on TV showing alcoholics getting help and such, I myself have talked to a couple of friends of mine when their drinking got out of control. One didn't thik it was a problem and would not acknowledge it or let me help him, he eventually saw in his grades that it was a problem and cut back. My other friend immediately saw the problem and wanted to change.

I saw the same problem when I went through a year and a half of eating disorders ... I knew what I was doing but I didn't see the effects or realize the severity of it. A friend of mine brought it all to my attention, she went through nearly a year of it too, and helped me out.

DUI's are a sticky situation. As with many things it is relative. You can be .01 over the limit and driving two blocks back to your house at 2 AM in a neighborhood, but you can still get a DUI and are labelled the same as some whacko that is so drunk they are in the blackout phase, with several prior drinking convictions of sorts, and driving 50 through a school zone during school hours. Your situation is not that of an alcoholic, you felt the effect of the lumping factor. Instead of looking at cases separately and realizing the differences, you were lumped into a group that you didn't belong in.

As for most of my beliefs and thoughts, they spawn from experience. My old friend Ben started smoking the dope in 11th grade with some of his friends. I'll set it to Ben, Kevin and Adam. All three of these kids lived with their parents, but none of their parents would admit to the fact that their kids had were using drugs, or that they were afraid to do something ... perhaps both. I even was in denial that one of my friends was using drugs to the extent that he was, as I realize now that I have with all friends I've lost to drugs. None of these kids recieved help and spiraled into it worse. That's what my thoughts are.

[Uncle Du 22]

I totally see that man. My friends that got caught up doin that sith in high school are still stuck in that same small town, barely getting by. Makin enough money to buy dope still though.

And your right about the whole, getting a DUI, and being lumped into the same group. I myself was .15, well over the limit, and I paid the price. Crashed into two parked cars. I was extremely fortunate that no one was in those cars, or that I didn't hit any at all. I could be sitting in the slammer if that had happened. The depression that I had to fight because of what I did was incredible. Maybe that's where I differ from others than get those multiple DUI's, I actually have a concsious, and I really DON"T wanna go through that sith again. I guess that's maybe a fundamental difference, I had the WILL to change myself for the better. I knew that what I had done was wrong.

Kinda goes back to the way people are raised, eh?

[Tsl 7]

Yeah, it goes back to that spanking issue in the other thread

(kiddings....mostly)

[Uncle Du 22]

That's right, spanking adds character. Just look at me!! ;)

Edited January 11, 2005 by Du

[Bad furday 57]

I was spanked a lot. :p

[Andy 60]

okay, that destroys any arguement that spanked kids grow up to be normal. :p

[Uncle Du 22]

:rofl:

Why, I'm as normal as they come. :roll:

[Princess 35]

Uh huh

[Uncle Du 22]

I think we're all normal. It's the rest of the world that's ewoked up. ;)

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

pfft! normalcy is soooooo overrated. :nutty:

[Uncle Du 22]

Hehe. Normalcy. That's funny. Heh.

[Mickey 1]

Dude, your stormie is humping at Ludicrous Speed

[GI_Admiral 2]

Stormie > j00 4ll! :p