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Bushy

Abortion:

Is Abortion right or wrong?  

11 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Abortion right or wrong?

    • Right
      2
    • Wrong
      4
    • It depends on the circumstances
      5


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Bushy

Ok, yeah, rather touchy subject, but I really felt led to do this. I want to hear everyone's opinion on Abortion. Do you think it's right or wrong, and most importantly why? If you think Abortion is wrong, good for you. If you think it's right, well, tell me why, and I'll prove to you that it is very, very wrong. In fact, I challenge anyone who believes in Abortion to tell me why. I guarentee I will shoot it down, and if I don't, then you're, well, stubborn :p And if you think that it depends, then you're also wrong. Nothing is right and wrong at the same time, it's either one or the other. Right or wrong.

Anyway... I think Abortion is wrong, and in a nutshell, I think it's wrong because, well, it's the senseless killing of babies. Short and sweet. Loose the sugar-coated name, and when you get right down to it, it's murder, plain and simple.

Bee tee double-you... I promise to be good... ;) And I just want to ask anyone who gets involved in this to please keep personal attacks, wether direct or subliminal, out of this. They've no place in this discussion.

EDIT: DAMNIT!! I screwed up the poll options. Could someone either fix it to say "Right" and "Wrong", or just vote "Yes" for right, and "No" for wrong... Eh. *slaps forehead*

Edited by Bushy

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Tsl

Nothing is black and white.

EDIT: Fixed it for ya :)

Edited by Tsl

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Bushy

You just said nothing is black and white... By that I thought you meant it can't be right and wrong at the same time. It's either right, or not.

What situations did you have in mind that would make Abortion right, in your eyes?

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Tsl

You just said nothing is black and white... By that I thought you meant it can't be right and wrong at the same time. It's either right, or not.

What situations did you have in mind that would make Abortion right, in your eyes?

The phrase "nothing is black and white" means the exact opposite. Nothing is clear cut like that. Abortion is one of those gray area things.

In a nutshell, it's okay if continuing to carry or giving birth to the baby will kill the mother. (ie. ectopic pregnancy, mom has a really bad heart or something, mom will have to go off meds that she needs to sustain life). It's a commonly accepted and practiced ethical thingy that the mother always gets saved first. And I believe it's okay in the case of rape and incest.

It is not okay for someone who had a really fun night and whoopsie!

I would also advocated adoption over abortion in the case of rape, but it's really up to the woman.

Late term is also not okay....unless it's a life threatening emergency type thing, I guess.

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GI_Admiral

I agree with TSL

Nothing is Black and White...

What if you are an average american which means bachelor level in College ((somewhere around there)) and you're making enough money to support your family. ((Not an attack on you...just average american)). You have a daughter...she was walking home, a guy came up beat her, raped her and got her pregnant. Let's add to this, you daughter, a straight A student who has plans for getting a Ph. D, becoming the first in her family to get that degree, where she will then get a highpaying job to help support you, gets raped and impregnated. She has the option of...

A) Keeping the baby, Possibly dropping out of school/decrease in grades because she needs to spend time with the baby/do prebirth stuff ((Yknow...those classes? right?)) and because then she'll either need to get a job, or you'll be paying for another child.

B) Have an abortion, continue on with school and college, with the emotional scars of being raped and aborting her unborn child.

Then again...

2 Horny people go at it and get knocked up. This is where abortion gets fuzzy. It was their mistake for not being prepared and stuff. But does the woman deserve to go through with her life having to take care of a child she didn't want in the first place? It could lead to abusive families but then again, it could be the best thing that happened to her.

So this rant was just me saying:

I'm for abortions unless they're late-term. It's the mothers right to choose.

Edit: TSL brought up a good point, Mothers life is in Danger is also a time where abortion would matter.

Edit 2: Pin just reminded me that I am also against Partial-Birth Abortions

Edited by Giant Ignoramous

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Princess

I pretty much agree with TSL. Abortion is only acceptable in my eyes when the mother's life is at risk or in the case of rape (and then only very early on in the pregnancy). I do not believe in late term or especially partial birth abortion (Which is absolutely disgusting) and if you had your night of fun and forgot a condom, well, deal with the consequences of your actions

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chozen

abortion.. right..

It's not so clear vut as.. it's only right when... blah blah blah.. because it's not. It's still wrong. But it's the mother choice, if she doesn't want to have the baby, then she shouldn't have to.

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Princess

But it's the mother choice, if she doesn't want to have the baby, then she shouldn't have to.

So, if the mother doesn't want to have a baby, why not just use birth control? (And yes, I know that it's not 100% effective, but it sure is better than not using anything, getting pregnant and then just aborting the pregnancy)

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Tsl

It's impossible to police that though. If the law were changed so that a gal had to get official approval of her motives before having an abortion, she'd likely get the verdict sometime around 2 years after her due date.

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Andy

A) Keeping the baby, Possibly dropping out of school/decrease in grades because she needs to spend time with the baby/do prebirth stuff ((Yknow...those classes? right?)) and because then she'll either need to get a job, or you'll be paying for another child.

B) Have an abortion, continue on with school and college, with the emotional scars of being raped and aborting her unborn child.

You're forgetting:

C) Have the child and put it up for adoption, allowing someone who can't have kids of their own to have a chance.

I say abortion is wrong. But if pregnancy poses a risk to the mother, then that should be an available option. There is no sense in losing 2 lives when one could be saved.

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chozen

So, if the mother doesn't want to have a baby, why not just use birth control?  (And yes, I know that it's not 100% effective, but it sure is better than not using anything, getting pregnant and then just aborting the pregnancy)

.... no

Because maybe she used contraception and it failed.

anyway, i don't think anyones stupid enough to have sex without a condom, i mean.. diseases... and lets face it.. an abortion opperation isn't a walk in the park.. I suspect they'll be some pain involved.. no ones stupid enough to use abortion instead of contraception.

When you have unprotected sex... pregnancy is the last thing you should be worried about...

It's impossible to police that though. If the law were changed so that a gal had to get official approval of her motives before having an abortion, she'd likely get the verdict sometime around 2 years after her due date.

I see waht you're getting at.....

mass... genocide of all childrens!!!

Why.. didn't i think of that.

Edited by Old Green Turtle

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Tsl

Not saying that abortion is a better option than adoption, because it's sooo not. But remember that the life of an orphan is not always so very pleasant. Neither is the life of a child who is kept, but unwanted and abused and/or given up for adoption or put into foster care later in life.

A friend of mine who's a receoptionist at the hospital I work at was telling me about a kid she was admitting. He was 5, very cute. She asked him was he living at the same adress.

"Yes," he replied. Then his little face fell, and he corrected himself, "Oh wait no... I don't live there anymore. My parents didn't want me anymore."

Yeah, talk about emotional scaring. It was then she realized he was in foster care.

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Tsl

  It's impossible to police that though. If the law were changed so that a gal had to get official approval of her motives before having an abortion, she'd likely get the verdict sometime around 2 years after her due date. 

I see waht you're getting at.....

mass... genocide of all childrens!!!

Why.. didn't i think of that.

Excuse me?

Oh...and there are tons and bunches of people who refuse contraception.

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Bushy

What you mean then is "Nothing is black or white"...

Anyway...

What if you are an average american which means bachelor level in College ((somewhere around there)) and you're making enough money to support your family. ((Not an attack on you...just average american)). You have a daughter...she was walking home, a guy came up beat her, raped her and got her pregnant. Let's add to this, you daughter, a straight A student who has plans for getting a Ph. D, becoming the first in her family to get that degree, where she will then get a highpaying job to help support you, gets raped and impregnated. She has the option of...

A) Keeping the baby, Possibly dropping out of school/decrease in grades because she needs to spend time with the baby/do prebirth stuff ((Yknow...those classes? right?)) and because then she'll either need to get a job, or you'll be paying for another child.

B) Have an abortion, continue on with school and college, with the emotional scars of being raped and aborting her unborn child.

Yeah, rape is a terrible thing, but you know what? No matter how terrible or disgusting it is, if the woman gets pregnat, that's a new life that was created. Out of all that evilness can come something beautiful. There is absolutely no reason for a rape victim to abort her child. Her family, if they love her, should do all they can to support her, and trust me, I know a girl who went through that, and she is so happy that she decided to keep the baby. Sure she'll have those emotional scars that will stay with her, but you know what, everyone has something in their life that they go through that stays with them forever. Rape is no reason to take a life...

Then again...

2 Horny people go at it and get knocked up. This is where abortion gets fuzzy. It was their mistake for not being prepared and stuff. But does the woman deserve to go through with her life having to take care of a child she didn't want in the first place? It could lead to abusive families but then again, it could be the best thing that happened to her.

So this rant was just me saying:

I'm for abortions unless they're late-term. It's the mothers right to choose.

All actions have conceqences. You have sex, it's just possible you may have a baby. That's why sex is there, after all... Just because it was "by accident" doesn't give anyone a right to kill the baby.

And in the case of of the mother's life being threatened... Think of it this way. You're pregnat (you'd have to be a woman to be pregnat, so immagine that too :p). Your first child. You're so excited, and can not wait for the child to be born. A month from the baby's due date, you find out that there are life threatening issues, and that having the baby could mean that you, and possibly the baby, could die. Well, what would you rather do? Try and have the baby anyway, hoping that one of you comes out of it alive, knowing that if one or both of you dies, at least you tried? Or would you kill the baby and then have to live with the fact that your first child is dead, and you're alive because of it? I don't think so... I'm not a woman, but I'd definately go with choice number two. And besides, with medical technology the way it is nowadays, that kind of thing is pretty rare. In large and/or wealthy nations, anyway...

And one more thing. It is not a woman's right to choose anything when it comes to abortion. I don't care if it is her body, which it isn't, it's the baby's that they're talking about. Abortion is the taking of the life of an unborn child. That's a nice way of saying murder. Nobody has a choice of any kind when it comes to murder. You just don't do it.

Edited by Bushy

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Tsl

Well, that just takes us back to the endless argument of "when does life begin", lol. Is it at conception or when the baby is viable. Is it the individual egg and sperm? Is it at the moment they meet, the moment of implantation, or once the cells reach a certain number? Is it when the neural tube forms? When the organs begin to function? When the fetus actually begins to resemble a humanish thing? *shrugs*

Anyways, you're right, alot of mom's would choose the baby over themselves in that case. I'm talking about a mom who is going to die before the baby would ever have the slightest chance of living outside the womb (which is 20 weeks at the absolute earliest, btw). If you didn't find out until the very last minute, after 20 weeks of pregnancy, you could just have an emergency c-section and everything would be hunky dory-ish.

If you're gonna die before you make it to 20 weeks....you're killing two instead of one.

And what about ectopic pregnancy? The baby is guaranteed to not live and neither is the mom. Should that be left to carry out as it will too?

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Bushy

If you're gonna die before you make it to 20 weeks....you're killing two instead of one.

No, you're not actively killing anyone by letting it play out... The only killing takes place when there's an abortion.

And what about ectopic pregnancy? The baby is guaranteed to not live and neither is the mom. Should that be left to carry out as it will too?

That still doesn't make it right to kill off one so that the other can live, especially when the one you're going to kill has no say in the matter...

In my opinion, human life begins the moment the sperm reaches the egg and cells start to reproduce. At that point, it is a human being.

Think of it this way... Bugs usually go through four stages in theif lifecycle; egg, larvae, pupa, adult. Throughout each stage, the bug is still a bug, it just looks different, or can/can't perform certain funcions. It's still a bug though...

See what I mean?

Doesn't matter how you cut it, I strongly believe that abortion, in any circumstances, is wrong. There's no reason at all to take the life of an innocent baby who hasn't even been born yet... Heh, it's kind of ironic. Some people go on about women's right to choose. What about the baby's right to choose? Not that they'd know any better... Ok, how about the baby's right, as a human being, to live? Abortion takes that away.

Edited by Bushy

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Ana

And what about ectopic pregnancy? The baby is guaranteed to not live and neither is the mom. Should that be left to carry out as it will too?

That still doesn't make it right to kill off one so that the other can live, especially when the one you're going to kill has no say in the matter...

Let's to a little let's-pretend. Imagine that you're a fetus, only you unfortunately became implanted in your mother's fallopian tube instead of her womb. Imagine that you knew that if you didn't die now, you would slowly kill your mother, and you'd die anyway. What would you choose?

I'd like to think that any baby aborted to save the life of its mother would understand the necessity of their sacrifice. The fetus doesn't get a say in the matter, that's true. But if it could speak, what would it say? "let me hang around and kill my mother and myself"? Or, would it say, "I'm sorry I went wrong, I do not wish to cause any more pain, please do what you must to save the one of us who can survive?"

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Tsl

Indeed. And I might add that a death by rupturing of the fallopian tubes caused by the growing mass of cells followed by septicemia and finally death is not a good way to go.

I think even the most right-winged, orthodox Catholics would say emergency removal of the ovary and fallopian tube in the case of ectopic pregnancy is more than justified. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's considered a natural or spontaneous abortion (ie. miscarriage).

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Bushy

It doesn't matter what the baby may or may not chose, had he/she been intellegent to understand... There's a huge difference in choosing to give up your life in order to save another, than actively taking a life without consent from the person who's life you're taking in order to save another's life. Sure, if my mother was dying, and by giving my life, it would cause her to live, I damn well would give my life for her in a heartbeat. But you can't make that kind of decission for someone. You just can't. Yes, do all you can to try and stop the mother and/or child from dying, except delibrately taking the life of one or the other without their consent. I've heard of cases where the mother chose to undergo certain procedures that would certainly kill her, in order for her baby to be born alive. That's her choice, and she's deciding on what to do with her own life. Nobody has the right to take someone else's life like that...

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Radioactive Isotope

I pretty much agree with TSL. Abortion is only acceptable in my eyes when the mother's life is at risk or in the case of rape (and then only very early on in the pregnancy). I do not believe in late term or especially partial birth abortion (Which is absolutely disgusting) and if you had your night of fun and forgot a condom, well, deal with the consequences of your actions

that is exactly my stand. in my opinion, abortion is murder unless in the aforementioned cases.

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Bushy

Well, at least we pretty much agree that the more blatant types of abortion, such as partial-birth abortion, are absolutely disgusting...

Thanks for sharing your opinions. Most people I talk to don't even want to talk about the subject, or just say "I'm all for a woman's right to choose", and don't say anything else cause they don't know what they're talking about, and/or don't know exactly they stand for.

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Tsl

One other point...and not a good one, but something to mention

Before abortions became legal...people would...er, perform them themselves. And....then die. Yuck. Also, it's an alternative for the whackos who toss their babies in a dumpster to freeze to death after birth (though some do it anyways).... evalness :evil:

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