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Chickenman

War in the Middle East

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Radioactive Isotope

Even though I'm not American, what you said, JM, would be nice (it would benefit Canada in the process) but it would seem that the government doesn't agree.

*cackle* that's why i should rule the world. :twisted:

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Andy

what i was getting at is that we're trying to fix other countries' problems and ignoring our own.

That is true. It's exactly one of the reasons why I still think going into Iraq was a bad idea in the first place.

But, it happened, and when things go wrong you have to pick up the pieces.

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Drake

it's been tried and then we got dragged into a world war. i think it's amazing how much other countries say they hate America and yet beg for our help when the guy next-door starts harassing them.

I'm sorry, but that is totally WRONG. No one begged America to join the World Wars.

WW1: The Germans destroyed a cruise ship carrying American citizens...a couple years later, US decides to join the war.

WW2: Japan attacks Pearl Harbour. America joins the war for revenge.

Sure, the US was asked...but that was at the beginning of the wars. They were hardly begged. America isn't the great big world saviour that it's made out to be...

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Alexander

WW2: Japan attacks Pearl Harbour. America joins the war for revenge.

I don't think they got in WWII for revenge, but they used that as a mask as a reason. I believe FDR and Churchill both knew Pearl Harbor would happen and let it happen so America could get in the war.

But that's another topic. ;)

Edited by Alexander

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Radioactive Isotope

I'm sorry, but that is totally WRONG. No one begged America to join the World Wars.

WW1: The Germans destroyed a cruise ship carrying American citizens...a couple years later, US decides to join the war.

WW2: Japan attacks Pearl Harbour. America joins the war for revenge.

Sure, the US was asked...but that was at the beginning of the wars. They were hardly begged. America isn't the great big world saviour that it's made out to be...

both the Germans and the Japanese knew when they attacked, America would strike back. so, in a sense, i'm right. we tried to stay out of it since we weren't directly involved and because of Harding's isolationism ideals, but when provoked, we acted.

perhaps my meaning was unclear, but i didn't mean "help" necessarily as troops and provisions. we've given money to North Korea for humanitarian aid (which never got to the people) like we do for a lot of countries.

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Radioactive Isotope

WW2: Japan attacks Pearl Harbour. America joins the war for revenge.

I don't think they got in WWII for revenge, but they used that as a mask as a reason. I believe FDR and Churchill both knew Pearl Harbor would happen and let it happen so America could get in the war.

But that's another topic. ;)

yeah, i've heard that too. seems kinda silly to me to allow so many of your own troops to die just so you have an excuse to go to war, but that's just me.

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Alexander

I'm sure they'd try to justify it by the saying "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Edited by Alexander

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Tsl

You know what? When somebody goes back in time and somehow prevents America from joining the war, but keeps everything else the same, and I get to see what the outcome would have been....I say.... Who knows what would have happened had the US not gotten fully involved?

What's the point of arguing it? I mean, really...lol...

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Radioactive Isotope

really. what's done is done, and we can't change a lick of it. <---- o.O way Southern expression......

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GI_Admiral

Alright lets see...where to start...

1) Drake is right. America isn't the hero it was made out to be. In WW1 we were basically in teh war in everything but name and troops. Our troops really didn't help too much considering the fact that we didnt even have a standing army then and so it took a long time to train and then ship over green soldiers. In both wars, we were so far behind in military might and military technology that it wasn't even funny. WW2 US had a bit bigger influence.

2) The war in Iraq was supposed to not only solve "International Problems" but also boost the economy, which it did...but it failed to boost the amount of jobs, so in the long run, was pretty much useless.

3) In the World Wars, our reason was for revenge. What do we do? WW1: We start by attacking Mexico. Not Germany the people who continued defying our warnings, but Mexico. WW2: We attack Germany. Not Japan, who sent the bombers, but Germany. Alexanders theory isn't too farfettched. I know that they knoew about the attack on Pearl Harbor a few hours or so before the attack.

4) TSL, you said that if we changed teh past, the future might be worse, but the future might also be better. ...If only Hitler was sti-...i mean...uh...!!!!

5) There is no 5)

Edited by Star Trek Lover

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Alexander

It's hard to take you seriously with that guy in your signature.

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Bad furday

Yes....somehow a metal bikini clad man doesn't give a sense of authority.... :p

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Andy

WW1: We start by attacking Mexico. Not Germany the people who continued defying our warnings, but Mexico.

Eh? Mexico wasn't even in WW1. :???:

The USA entered WW1 on 6th April 1917 when they declared war on Germany.

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GI_Admiral

lol

Zimmerman Telegram was Germany to Mexico saying "Attack the US to keep them out of the war"

So we immedietly sent troops to mexico...then we went to germany

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chozen

yeah, i've heard that too. seems kinda silly to me to allow so many of your own troops to die just so you have an excuse to go to war, but that's just me.

A bit like... Bush lettign the world trade cen- nah.. couldn't be. :roll:

So Gi, did the three air craft ships suddenly randomly decided to go on 'excersises' just because it was fitting for all three to go on 'excersise' in entirely different locations at the same time.. ?

Bad as these 'torture images' (although I wouldn't call them torture, they just seem like severly harsh interogation to me) are, beheading innocent people is just as wrong. These acts just show why troops were needed in Iraq, purely because Iraq was ewoked up to begin with, but now it's even more ewoked up.

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Ender

OK, now that the liberals are crying and bithing over the prisoner abuse, which I also think is atrocious, has ANYONE HERE give ONE DAMN THOUGHT to the Americans who were mutilated and dragged through the streets? Were those Iraqis who did that punished? No. They didnt stand any kind of trial; they got away with it. So to me, whenever I hear someone talking about the prisoner abuse, I think of those people. That puts in perspective. How bad is this, compared to the mutilation of those Americans? Huh? Were any of those prisoners killed and cut into pieces? Were they dragged through the streets? No, they were not. They got roughed up. Anyone else think people are overreacting a bit here? For God's sake, just shut the hell up. You might as well have thought that the Iraqi prisoners were Americans, and those four Americans were just nameless Iraqis who meant nothing. WAKE UP LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

Edited by Drizzt Do'Urden

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Andy

The fact that they are Iraqis doesn't make them worth any less than an American.

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chozen

Wow Andrew, you've justplaye dup to the typical republican stereotype.. 'I don't give a sith because it's america that's doing it.'

The reason they stood no trial is because there's no system in iraq to trial them.

Although you have to love the way you'd easily disregard people as just 'nameless iraqis'

When it's because of those 'nameless iraqis' why Co. troops are even in iraq getting butchered.

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Tsl

OK, now that the liberals are crying and bithing over the prisoner abuse, which I also think is atrocious, has ANYONE HERE give ONE DAMN THOUGHT to the Americans who were mutilated and dragged through the streets? Were those Iraqis who did that punished? No. They didnt stand any kind of trial; they got away with it. So to me, whenever I hear someone talking about the prisoner abuse, I think of those people. That puts in perspective. How bad is this, compared to the mutilation of those Americans? Huh? Were any of those prisoners killed and cut into pieces? Were they dragged through the streets? No, they were not. They got roughed up. Anyone else think people are overreacting a bit here? For God's sake, just shut the hell up. You might as well have thought that the Iraqi prisoners were Americans, and those four Americans were just nameless Iraqis who meant nothing. WAKE UP LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

OK, now that the liberals are crying and bithing over the prisoner abuse, which I also think is atrocious, has ANYONE HERE give ONE DAMN THOUGHT to the Americans who were mutilated and dragged through the streets?

People are upset about it on both sides of the isle...anyone with an ounce of respect for people is upset about it.

has ANYONE HERE give ONE DAMN THOUGHT to the Americans who were mutilated and dragged through the streets?

Of course...that was horrible. But it was kind of...more expected than for the US, which is supposed to be so equal and fair minded, to be doing that sort of thing. Hence more surprise, hence more going on about it.

ow bad is this, compared to the mutilation of those Americans? Huh? Were any of those prisoners killed and cut into pieces? Were they dragged through the streets? No, they were not. They got roughed up.

Why does it need comparison? This wasn't some radical militant group that committed prisoner abuse...it was the US military!

You might as well have thought that the Iraqi prisoners were Americans, and those four Americans were just nameless Iraqis who meant nothing.

And that right there is just damned disturbing. That's the sort of thinking those radicals over there who dragged those Americans through the streets, who beheaded that poor American civillian in retaliation, who commit genocidal crimes have. You think those nameless Iraqis mean nothing to their families? You think they can't feel fear or pain? They are people too. Probably alot of them have kids at home, their moms and dads, their wives...

I bet you'd be dying of rage if it were the Iraqis doing this abuse to American POWs...

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Ender

The nameless Iraqis remark was directed towards the radicals and prisoners. The soldiers who committed the crimes have had their life stories put all over the news. Has anything been said about the prisoners? Their names? Their pasts? No. So what in the hell am I supposed to call them? Iraqi teenager third from the left of the Iraqi dragging the body parts firing an AK-47? Nameless Iraqis is what they are to me. I'm not their family, I dont know them, I dont know their names. So why are you offended by the term "Nameless Iraqis?"

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Tsl

It was more the "...who meant nothing." part, actually.

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GI_Admiral

OK, now that the conservative has finished bithing over there, I would liek to rip his arguments a new one...so here I go!

OK, now that the liberals are crying and bithing over the prisoner abuse, which I also think is atrocious, has ANYONE HERE give ONE DAMN THOUGHT to the Americans who were mutilated and dragged through the streets?

Oh yeah those guys......those...the ones in a war zone...while the Iraqi's were in a prison as POWs...hmm Whats that I hear...what? Geneva Convention???? No...couldnt be that we just decided to screw that...

Were those Iraqis who did that punished? No. They didnt stand any kind of trial; they got away with it.

By got away you mean, Friends/family/countrymen killed by constant bombardments and US fire. Country being conquered. Government of the past years completely undermined. If thats what you mean...they got away free as a bird.

So to me, whenever I hear someone talking about the prisoner abuse, I think of those people. That puts in perspective.

You're right. Like I said, its HORRIBLE to kill a armed soldier ready to shoot you. But its not so bad to...maybe even encouraged to beat, torture and sodomize malnurished prisoners of war. Hell yeah!! Who wants to go to the nearest prison! w00t!! ((Sarcastic btw...please dont turn me in under teh Patriot Act!!!))

How bad is this, compared to the mutilation of those Americans? Huh? Were any of those prisoners killed and cut into pieces? Were they dragged through the streets? No, they were not. They got roughed up.

Yes...indeed...are you saying that it's alright to just go to some random person, starve them for a bit, then strip them naked taking pictures of yourself, and then electrocuting their [Censored]? Mutilation is bad...but atleast they're dead. Besides someone could say "Their lifeless corpse, which cant feel anything, was just being roughed up....with knives"

Anyone else think people are overreacting a bit here? For God's sake, just shut the hell up.

Uh...Mr USA-All-the-way, I think you're trying to take away our First amendment right. I suggest you go to your room, and read the Constitution and the Bill of rights 500 times before posting.

You might as well have thought that the Iraqi prisoners were Americans, and those four Americans were just nameless Iraqis who meant nothing.

Uh..well...actually...it wouldnt be as big a deal. I mean, c'mon, if you've been up with the news lately, Americans have been dying left and right in Iraq, whats a few more? Oh wait...I forgot, you value life...and yet...throwing it away in Iraq...doesnt that go against valuing life? I mean...If you think sending troops into a country to be slaughtered is valuing...I sure as hell dont wanna be valued.((Note: I dont like people dying...please dont hurt me :p))

WAKE UP LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

Sorry...unlike Furday I seem to be able to type coherently when I sleep :p

Now...I'll add something myself. There is a common phrase "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind" We just poked their eyes...you could say we're poking back....but I know that we'll be poked again...and soon we'll be blind but so will they. while we might not have "Awakened a giant" we have stirred more anger towards the US and Western Civilization. Expect more deaths to come and more rantings by ender. ((Nothing personal ender..."its not you...it's Dubya Bush! :p)) :D

Edited by Star Trek Lover

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Drake

It's more like: "It's not you...it's just everything that you stand for." :p

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Princess

Oh yeah those guys......those...the ones in a war zone...while the Iraqi's were in a prison as POWs...hmm Whats that I hear...what? Geneva Convention???? No...couldnt be that we just decided to screw that...

Actually, if they're arrested as terrorists, the Geneva Convention rules don't apply.

And it's getting a little warm in here guys, let's cool it down just a bit

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Andy

Actually, if they're arrested as terrorists, the Geneva Convention rules don't apply.

They should do though. Besides, why is everyone that fights against the US a terrorist now? The way they probably see it, they are defending their country against the attackers, Iraq is a war zone, and terrorist-like actions don't really count as terrorism in war because violence and hostile activities are part of the very nature of war.

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